Fintan O’Toole: ‘Brexit is full of hysterical self-pity’
Fintan O’Toole is one
of the most respected columnists and literary journalists working in the
English language. He writes for the Irish Times and is a regular
contributor to the New York Review of Books. His latest book, Heroic
Failure: Brexit and the Politics of Pain, is an excoriating cultural
analysis of the political ideas behind Brexit.
Andrew Anthony: You argue that
English nationalism is the ghost in the Brexit machine. Why do you think that
is?
From the turn of the century onwards, you have this extraordinary rise of the
idea of England as a political community [ie, a popular desire for England-only
legislation voted on by English-only politicians]. All the public opinion
surveys show this. It’s very odd and I can’t think of any other parallels where
it happens without a political party, without newspapers, without a national
theatre. There’s no WB Yeats of English nationalism. So it’s not very well
articulated. It’s a set of feelings rather than a political programme and
Brexit offers itself as the way to address it. It says here’s the way to
express yourself with an English identity. But it doesn’t answer it.
In your book, you
criticise the way parallels have been made between Brexit and the 100 years
war. What is the main problem?
A single word: vassalage. What on earth is this word doing in political discourse in the 21st century? I was struck by its re-emergence. It comes originally from Jacob Rees-Mogg and Boris Johnson, this mad idea that somehow the 100 years war shows the English capacity to throw off feudal vassalage. It’s a ludicrous misunderstanding of history. The war was more like Charles Taylor in Sierre Leone – a hideous crime against humanity. To go back to that as the only thing you have to express what English freedom might mean in the 21st century shows how demented it is.
A single word: vassalage. What on earth is this word doing in political discourse in the 21st century? I was struck by its re-emergence. It comes originally from Jacob Rees-Mogg and Boris Johnson, this mad idea that somehow the 100 years war shows the English capacity to throw off feudal vassalage. It’s a ludicrous misunderstanding of history. The war was more like Charles Taylor in Sierre Leone – a hideous crime against humanity. To go back to that as the only thing you have to express what English freedom might mean in the 21st century shows how demented it is.
You also write
about the long English tradition of clinging romantically to heroic defeat.
What do you ascribe this to?
George Orwell wrote about this in the early 1940s. He said that it was extraordinary that if you think about the poems that English schoolkids will know, they’re all about defeats or retreats or disasters. It’s Scott of the Antarctic, it’s the Charge of the Light Brigade, it’s Gordon of Khartoum. That tradition of heroic failure was great when you were ruling the world as it was a way of saying we’re not really a nasty imperial power. But in a post-imperial age you get a farcical version. Because originally the thing that characterised heroic failure in the English imagination was not self-pity, but Brexit is full of hysterical self-pity.
George Orwell wrote about this in the early 1940s. He said that it was extraordinary that if you think about the poems that English schoolkids will know, they’re all about defeats or retreats or disasters. It’s Scott of the Antarctic, it’s the Charge of the Light Brigade, it’s Gordon of Khartoum. That tradition of heroic failure was great when you were ruling the world as it was a way of saying we’re not really a nasty imperial power. But in a post-imperial age you get a farcical version. Because originally the thing that characterised heroic failure in the English imagination was not self-pity, but Brexit is full of hysterical self-pity.
You describe a
false caricature of Germany, put about by Brexiters, of an expansionist nation.
You also say that the EU, and especially Germany, had a need to severely punish
debtor countries. Is Germany the glue that holds the EU together or a
controlling villain?
There’s no doubt that Germany is the major power in Europe, and that’s one of the things going on with Brexit. It’s this idea that this country we defeated twice in the 20th century is now seen as the dominant power. That leads to fantasies that Britain really lost the war and we’re being taken over insidiously by the Germans. The real problem with the Germans isn’t that they’re trying to take over Europe. It’s that they’ve promulgated a very heavy austerity that is deeply ingrained in the German mentality. The irony is, it’s exactly the policy that the Tory Brexiters themselves were pursuing...
There’s no doubt that Germany is the major power in Europe, and that’s one of the things going on with Brexit. It’s this idea that this country we defeated twice in the 20th century is now seen as the dominant power. That leads to fantasies that Britain really lost the war and we’re being taken over insidiously by the Germans. The real problem with the Germans isn’t that they’re trying to take over Europe. It’s that they’ve promulgated a very heavy austerity that is deeply ingrained in the German mentality. The irony is, it’s exactly the policy that the Tory Brexiters themselves were pursuing...
